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some going to have a first question for ms it's uh
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then yeah regarding or that we've heard today you are a doctor
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and we can see that we supported data we
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are collecting now about are connected objects we or have
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a connected objected as devices so this we serve
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probably in the future provided that these data where uh
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store and uh considered as medical data for predictive
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medici and i would like to have your opinion
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what are the gains or benefits and risks of these major uh data collect
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and it are being collected by private industries also
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what's very interesting i think that you are asking the question
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regarding the predictive missing or the use of uh uh in high
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a i is being used or customised mitzi not
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precision make it seem there are several uh names
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and which uh uh is made of a sever elements we call it a four piece
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personalise precision predictive and prevention
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so where one hundred percent convinced and i don't need to be convinced by uh some
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extent expectations and being convinced my some achievements today uh of this meeting is in there
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here don't have not the production but use of the data that means
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they're really easy we inning hacked up to collect or this data
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and the use of i a. i. to classify and categorise and identify very
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specific profiles of the four very everything
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the pathology for those the quite actually yeah
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for example or cancers uh which uh we
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benefit from this approach or so the former co
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genetics which allows it to heart better a quantification
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of them made it seems and some orphan uh
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and it's a it's a four hour in the past it took at
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about twenty thirty e. is it to no more but then i within months
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kind identify some chains now or these pathologies why it works quite where or
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it's a very useful tool the reason why is that they
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they gave us quite easy answers are quite easy information i mean
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i talk about predicted made it's in now is that we want to
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see that thanks to or did they die we will be able to predict
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what's going to happen to you in ten easy we had i had it it or it's i'm air
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article so you're going to believe in two hundred and fifty is all because maybe we'll achieve is where
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in the production there is the use of the data yeah which to date
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we we don't know how to combine and what i really liked in the first presentation by mister blah
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is that there is no intelligence in a a artificial intelligence that today
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we cannot say that when they would be able to
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predict complex in it's it's such as the once we've
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talked about we won't be able to predict if you're going to have a car accident or
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or there is the major climate change or whatever so the
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capacity of production is the most to we ski parts of
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uh what we can for to personalise the meetings is the
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most risky part under a scientific point of view and of course
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this is also the most the whiskey element yeah under an economic point of view because
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personally there are some not very unacceptable reactions as we see where there
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you're not the vaccine i am vaccinated just to make sure things clear but when we say
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that the people were we sure one not being vaccinated will not get access to the intensive care
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is ethically this sees a how can we can we should do
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we should tell they both smoker that they won't be able to be treated either
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so are we then uh so to say predictive my there would be if uh
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by you to a very and search and
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element which is going to and then share quality of life and we're talking about the quality
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of life if we say if we know that in ten years time maybe you we have to
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you have to answer to to draft your your wheel
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me it's not a win win situation in that case so
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this is one issue the other one is the economic problem uh to
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what insurance companies they which are going to say well now and i just
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just to pinpoint that teaches companies they tried to do that
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when there was the changing that being a about a human
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humans you want it to you insert a but
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uh this uh provision saying that each or genetic or data had been
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asked by person had to be gave you as an information today insurance company
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it's so what do you want to tell us no no no no it's very it's very interesting what you're tending
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but i mean there is no intelligence in predictive made isn't that what you that's what you mean there is no intelligent
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intelligence and not in productive meeting today there is no intelligence in pretty
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maids in maybe i don't know what's gonna happen in twenty years but
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just another point would go talking about quality of life and productive meeting to improve
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quality of life to first think would be to ask people what they want at this
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fighting e. discussions which we start eating
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kinds engines with some projects but the
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population at large i mean you for normal paid for or a g. then
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say finally eventually we don't want to know we don't want to
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know but this is opening the discussion about what we can know
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and we shouldn't replace production by prevention now
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we could make some prevention and we invite very little money for prevention so first money for
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prevention and then production thank you very much i think this is a good message you are getting
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so how could we win forethought transcend its prevention
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with the date a we had data we have now so
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maybe it opened it the bait and society to ask a question
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two d. empowerment foundation and this is a late identity
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uh huh nineteen year a friend of mine you need yet told me that the ethical issue
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no i don't know what i'd like to know if what i do is good or not isn't
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being addressed in a school is and the society's let addressing the
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subject so where does it when she did come from the ethics
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shoes should it be especially nice debate about the first of our our would like to say that we are living in a society where
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there are a dividing everyone in a particular or a compartment department a we
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have a low p. four engineer it's mm duct r. s. and so on
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and there is the reality t. in there
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have been digital world where or these partitions
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do not exist anymore any longer we we have access to the no
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lately can the four courses on line at e. p. f. a. r.
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or in and uh you american uh university and while the tendency now is
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to have not diverted course id but how we sent our society and we have
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not only one uh a hat but several heights so
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and when we have a fixed departments like a
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different uh high schools i think that the uh
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basically what we lack it's they're sure we basically narrate see
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it's lacking and we should have an open the
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gates not only having engineer is uh talking about to
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i yeah i'd like to know how many years here are not scientists who is that
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an engineer here or how good good so we are making uh who are working for discourse
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so it shouldn't be a discussion only amount special rice beep
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or and this is the reason why i think it is uh
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really parents it to how i've uh more humanistic approach of society
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as profitable i said we last this your mind is the approach
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where we how historians uh uh the philosophers should participate in the d. b.
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eight and not to have a vertical debate where we try to define or
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several things that's why i appreciate it very much
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discussions today because we talked about uh and fight
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uh issues and i didn't fully against those uh easy see where we should do it just
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to be framed it by big debate in the social meet yeah then even though the or something
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why we read something easy switch air are we against our democratic feelings i think
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these these that's a picture of society and we needed to accepted these and integrate it it
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not to informing to buy us into the definition of these notions and
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i we should open the bait and i really thank you for this uh
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action your uh you've been uh doing for the last year
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oh okay okay indeed i think this is the first to come
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up between our foundations we can continue to do joint actions on
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a social and societal issues i would like to hear much more
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from you 'cause would've been for exciting to hear more from you
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or maybe i could give the floor to uh some of our
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old members uh of the telly molly foundation maybe each board member could
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like give us a these conclusions of course i think we've covered a lot of ground
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and yet there's still an awful lot of ground to cover so it's a difficult task
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to troll conclusions i do is not necessarily to move forward to the
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on the basis of certainties but we have to listen to all the arguments we've heard this afternoon
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to move forward in small steps towards quality of life
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we also engineers uh myself in particular and
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engineers in particular tend to want to devise solutions
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the solution could come from a a alright
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the cost we've seen attempts with the g. d. p. ah in the u. s.
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to engulf legal experts in the process of
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escape price to some strange sure result result
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this means that um today every time we want to go onto a side we have to
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a click on our preferences but that's not really the right solution
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because we have to control the quality in quality quality and quantity of data
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we've um moved away from the data file west when the window
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morsel rules or regulations no we've moved into a much more regulated area
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in which the individual so protected to much more
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so the actors uh no longer doing any old thing so we'll uh regulating mall but maybe that's not the right solution is
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that the right solution is that we should be able to use
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the data that we have to do so in a controlled manner
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for madison as well but isn't has to be able
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to apply cancer treatments to people who are capable of being
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healed being cute because statistics being shown that term they are people
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who want more sensitive to those treatments that would be something fundamentally useful
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and uh when we have interests um if you uh um
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when a a piece of information becomes available somewhere in the will to
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which is related to interested would be great to get access to it
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but this has to be done on the basis of a collaboration is it's not the whole gist of a group but um
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we have to really appropriate position off all models
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of course it's nice to be able to play with these models uh
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asuncion yeah it's nice to be able to play with some models but um
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the many ideas for a happens and uh projects which are
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in the pipeline thank you see which i i would like to
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re focus of our attention on the values
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because whatever the approach we forget to high rock eyes the approach
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as an education is at this uh makes me think of our tendency to cut
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up the or a difficulty in to cut out the objectives and uh we no longer
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after a while we no longer know where we are we no longer where we started from or where we're going where we are
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so uh as a medical go i've often a hostess problem
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then as the uh third notion which is that the proposition
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uh thinking of the french speaking swiss a better coke
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when talking about this a question of a fraction being sued
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but it works so people who'd surrounded child with paper so's not to feel his or
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her skin i think we have to feel people's skin have to get close to people
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and we have to go back to the simple
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human notions like communication simplification uh respect and dialogue
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but uh i have great difficulty in reconciling these two dimensions
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of this description that i've just given a may seem uh
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one dimension machines with the colours what i've just
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described buttons the dimension of science experiments and so on
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at the end of the day i have the impression that we no longer know
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exactly where we started from where we're heading where we find ourselves at the moment
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you've mentioned uh into discipline energy and multi disciplinary
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to us but i think we have to but um
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the people to uh a few little people them to to feel
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to sense but uh what they want and to know what they need in order to succeed
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in to a um a a them pretty happy that's what which i hardly dare use no
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we have to introduce more humanism intro relations these are not
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scientific notions of concepts of course offence to this but for me
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they are pretty fundamental notions so science should come back to the service of this
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fundamental notions i'm afraid that ah in yeah and so it's maybe working just for itself
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in a economics the economy we've seen that uh some
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companies so structuring so much and the planning so much
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that they uh uh really a living only for themselves the for forgotten
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that they have to uh to exist in order to produce the uh
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system is turning a guy in a circle going round in a circle i think he
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some way a vision of life is that life is a complicated but maybe at the end of the day it's not uh
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it's complicated as it may may seem if we go back to fundamental notions
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so i think the more complicated the notions we developed the more
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complicated things will seem thank you for your free commonsense based uh
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approach shot commonsense which we saw at the at the beginning
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yeah well i could summarise simply by saying that i agree with everything that's been said
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uh but uh each and every idea could be pushed to the extremes of how
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could i start well first of all i'm also an engineering problem paying attention yeah
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and uh i'm a mound of the right
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and the proud of it but you can be an engineer and be on the right of the political spectrum
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and at the same time belief in a quality of life and humanism and other such qualities
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but as an engineer i have to be very pragmatic so when talking about some things i i'd like to know what
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we're talking about the present all the short term future all the long term future when talking about the quality of life
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i think that's a rather idealistic utopian idea because uh each
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person will come up with a different definition of quality of life
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although of course it's a good thing to ask the question the same applies to ethics we know when someone is not ethical
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but to say to someone really is ethical it's not possible is is uh like you know
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same us trying to define um scalded life when we asked a question about existing systems
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for so ross also to something interesting uh in this regard
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but um in my presentation at the bottom what i
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was trying to say was that most developments in a high
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make us believe in things which don't exist told me models with one name
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two maxima lies the number of kicks as what
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mister stewart certain to maximise financial income and so on
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and uh that is the fault of the present system uh even though i'm on the right of the political spectrum
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to uh go out to make people believe certain things at all costs uh
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in a bid to make profits short term profits on the backs of uh people who are suffering
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uh patients for example in in the field of medicine this has
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to be expressed much more clearly in media you've spoken about productive madison
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uh yeah prefer to talk about computer assisted prevention doctors
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to prevention insurance companies also do prevention if you're uh
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a smoker your life insurance will costume all all health insurance even
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uh when you reached fifty um your additional a complementary
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health issues will cost you more fusion uh been a smoker
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but to being fifty years old or what i think is shameful is the to conventional medicine i can um uh
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refer you to some articles um which say that some of the engine is
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uh uh say that um we should stop training uh radiologists because deep learning
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does the job patent humans uh does the job but uh but um radiologist
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uh you need about fifteen years of training to become a radiologist
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it's clear that i'm a google cannot just train people in a few months to become a radiologist
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and uh um the the these computer assisted tools computer based
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tool so just to assist radiologist up to replace them with
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no um if if you come along with the predictive for diagnostic system
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before being able to use it the system has to be approved them
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by a certain uh uh ministrations searches the few fruit mantra come instruction
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in the u. s. it normally takes about uh ten years to get f.
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d. a. approval in us there's only one which uses a little bit of a
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a a high uh um to help radiologist thoughts um to detect
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breast cancer and this has been the case since two thousand and two
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uh so in certain cases uh um we can been equivalents uh between radiologists and uh
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but uh twenty years later only three percent of women accept to diagnosis by a
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a computer rather than by a doctor because they prefer to speak to a real doctor
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so you have to look at the human criteria all the machines so we're looking
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at today based on financial criteria short term profit you have to be aware of that
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and the objectives of the machines are optimised to make money the criteria to use to train
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the machines that sebastian we're talking about art optimised things which make money as quickly as possible
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at the expense of the insurance companies um the that expensive of people of individuals
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and that this brings me back to the aims of our foundation
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our aim is to maximise the impact on
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the individual so this is a person related individual
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try to rim related to the call to fly for let's roll the utopian because
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it will not be possible to to draw up an exhaustive list of criteria that define
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quality of life but come back to you would you uh uh accept
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to be um we uh the object
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of um a i assisted to prevention
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even when talking about prevention um
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of course it would be a interesting to know uh what other genetic factors which make
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us more a problem to certain a a
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certain uh diseases and that um constant cost um
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it should be possible to do this with the the machine i just referred to so used by a three percent of um
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three percent of 'em patients but the machine
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uh the cost one thousand times morton radiologist
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we have to create a climate of confidence among the general population it's something we've lost because of all these uh
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i've uh tossing pasted tools and because of this uh falsified indicators
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the aim being to make short term profit that's all there is i'm a a recording engineer
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so what you say is we need more interest will confident so
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that really is the key just under the moment everything is being done to break this a trust
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and confidence i think there is one question from the floor will take this question from the floor
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thank you very much of a question from the floor my the question was infected comments not to question
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but all the things you do know presenting them of this often think we
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if we all want a better quality of life apart from artificial intelligence which
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would enable us to um reduce or eliminate to all these menial tasks
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but uh would make things so much easier when talking about prevention
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what i think is capital today is that we have to open up this uh to the to the public
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we need to revolution in that respect and to what we
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need is a to have a proper understanding of our use says
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what i've been able to see it all the symposium some conferences and meetings that
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deal with the subject i want always comes back to the problem of useful usage
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and if we don't ask these questions today uh where are we going to be
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fighting when it comes to interaction with
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the between technologies and the human aspect to
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google knows exactly where they want to head but i think that's a question we
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want to we need to ask ourselves now if we want a better life style
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i have nothing further to uh the says orally that really was uh the conclusion
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thank you for big thank you to all our speakers supporting participated today
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and thank you for older people who for helped
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us with the uh technology the interpreters and other subcontractors
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to have enabled us to bring about this interface
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and who made possible these uh presentations in english
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and french thank you mary for having organised event together with myself i yeah which you very nice evening
00:26:48
the uh pretty full be just outside the so we really started out of uh